paulcamillos

Pod Transcript

Paul Camillos (00:00.93)  

Welcome to Shooting the Breeze. Joining us for the third time on the pod is Renae Garlepp, who’s been torching the coaching landscape as silver medal-winning coach for the Gems at the recent Under 19s World Cup, head coach of the North’s Bears in the NBL One East, assistant coach for the Sydney Flames, and also assistant coaching roles with the Opals. And, you know, she’s also picked up a couple of NBL One Coach of the Year awards and an NBL One East Championship and voted Best Coach at the Under 19s Women’s World Cup. Renae, it’s great to have you back on the show.

Renae (00:27.049)

thanks for having me back. It’s great to be here.

Paul Camillos (00:30.614)

So, you know, mean, that’s, that’s like a really quick overview. I suppose one of the first things I’ve been, I’m curious about is have you found it over the last few seasons with the flames, you know, as an assistant coach and working with the team that’s had really great performances, but also had to face challenges like, you know, last year with, with injuries and just things not quite working out the way you would have expected from the beginning of the season.

Renae (01:02.982)

Yeah, I think I’d probably say that the first two years have felt a bit like that. Even the first year we were meant to have Swain and then Tess was in and out. So it’s been a lot of problem solving, but I actually have said this before that selfishly, because I’m the assistant coach, so it’s a slightly easier role that I get to learn through all of the chaos because I guess, Guy definitely wouldn’t feel this way, but.

Paul Camillos (01:26.179)

Yeah.

Renae (01:29.114)

There’s been so much go up and down that we’ve had to adapt and change things and implement new things that through all of that, I’ve had the ability to learn so much more than what I probably would have if it went straight forward. So, selfishly that side of it’s been super interesting and I actually think what I’d learned through that has helped me with everything else I’m doing. But yeah, I mean, it’s been incredible, to work with Guy for the last two years and his experience has been definitely helped shaped the coach that I am for sure.

Paul Camillos (01:57.642)

And you know, I mean, I think last season particularly, you know, the way things went with the roster, a lot of people were kind of saying, yeah, the flames probably won’t make it to the post season. But at the back end of the season, you know, everybody stepped up and there were a couple of like real standards. One of the ones that really stood out, given what happened with the Gems which we’ll get into was Bonnie Deas.

Renae (02:29.926)

Yeah, I think it’s a funny thing in sport you’ve got a bunch of players that are constantly trying to prove themselves and want a bigger role and you’ll see this all the time and then it’s thrust upon you through injury or whatever and now that role’s there and I think the majority of the time people will rise to it and if you can give them that self-belief that they can do it, everyone you’ve got on your roster is pretty talented but mean credit to Guy and how we changed the system and what we did to adapt to what we had because we lost so many big players and there were so many moving parts all year, but I think credit to the players on the team that they never really wavered from knowing that they were good basketball players and I think that really helped us as well.

Paul Camillos (03:14.446)

So, taking the learnings from that and then looking at this recent campaign with the Gems in Czechia, where you pulled in the silver medal, how much did the experience that you took from the challenges of the last couple of seasons help you with managing the team and managing the expectations of the players, given the group we were in and the teams we were stepping up against?

Renae (03:45.411)

I think probably what even prior to the Flames and what had happened, injuries always happen or lack of performance always happens or there’s all these different moving parts in sport and I think that I’ve kind of always been under the philosophy of just work with the working. So regardless of what’s happening and what you can’t control, just work with what’s in front of you and find a way with that because we could sit here and talk about all the players that were out injured and obviously we feel for them and we’ve got to support them in certain ways but that talking about that is not going to help us and we’re going to waste time so I think that I’ve always just been pretty laser focused of what’s in front of me and how do we get the best out of them and then that’s the exciting part that there’s no you know that whether it works it doesn’t work but at the end of the day they’re the players that have got to play so yeah I really enjoy that I enjoy the moving parts and the challenges that come within it and how you can get the best out of what’s in front of you.

Paul Camillos (04:43.822)

So, you know, with the gems at the Under-19s World Cup, you know, it was an interesting campaign. mean, first of all, it started off where one of the teams dropped out of the group, which, you know, obviously helps, right? Because it’s one less game. But on the other hand, it’s one less game of practice that you get. Like, from your perspective, being there on the ground when all of this happened,

What was going on? Was it, like really surprising that this situation arose?

Renae (05:17.678)

Yeah, I, whether…So imagine where we’d gone to Portugal and played in a four nations tournament, which was incredible and added so much value to our campaign. I won’t go into that to answer your question. And then we get to Czechia and we’re in dining hall and we’re probably a few days out. Then we’re a day out and every country’s there except Mali. And we’re all sharing the same dining hall and Mali’s tables there and there’s no Mali. And we’re thinking, OK, they’re leaving it to the 11th hour to get here. We might have an advantage. This might be good for us if they’re getting in.

Paul Camillos (05:49.39)

Yep.

Renae (05:51.544)

Been travelling late. Obviously didn’t say this to the players, just kind of thinking it with ourselves. But we actually didn’t find out till 7pm the night before we played at 11am that the game was cancelled. But we were told there was a slight chance, but we were going to have to turn up to the game the next day because they had till the jump ball to arrive. And this has happened previously in a fever tournament. we’re going to at 11am, we’re going to have to go to the game dressed, everyone ready to go jump ball. They don’t turn up. The game’s cancelled. We win. So we were prepping that till the 11th hour we were playing Mali. We’d done our scouts. We’d done our training ready to go. And the poor kids were just itching to play. could imagine that. the ones that had been to World Cup knew what was happening. The ones that never been, we’re just dying to play and to finally represent Australia. So then thankfully, we did find out the night before at 7pm, the game was cancelled and thankfully they gave us a practice slot instead, which was great in terms of the best situation, but it kind of came back to what I just said before. All right, what’s in front of us and what are we going to do? I felt, I really felt for the kids because they were just itching to play and we had to wait another day. So, but…

Paul Camillos (06:47.821)

All good.

Renae (07:02.948)

Yeah, like you said, it was one less game, I guess. Maybe it worked in our favour, maybe it didn’t, I don’t know. But we kind of had no choice, so we just rolled with it.

Paul Camillos (07:05.239)

Yeah.

Paul Camillos (07:11.83)

You talked about Portugal and that brings up a really interesting point, which is one of the, probably one of the biggest issues that we have being in Australia is the lack of international competition. and particularly when you’re taking a team for like the gems to, like a major tournament like this, how, from a coaching standpoint, how much of a challenge is that for you?

when you’re trying to get this team to work together, where they get so few opportunities to do it.

Renae (07:48.066)

Yeah, big, big challenge. guess we had two four day camps, no games until we got to Portugal, but we knew we had Portugal and we knew that we were going to get to play four games. So we’d play Portugal twice, Spain and Canada. So awesome games going in that we’d have hopefully a clear idea of where we’re at a little bit, but also our rotations because in all honesty, before we left, I had no idea what our rotations were, who was going to start and who were our go-tos. I couldn’t figure it out. I guess we had quite an even depth team and no clear kind of alphas, which isn’t a bad thing. So that Portugal was, we really had to discover who we were, our identity. Like I had an idea of what I wanted the offense and defense to look like.

we had to really figure out if it was going to work and we had four games to figure it out. those games were that training in games in Portugal. Honestly, that shaped the whole thing with what we did on the court on what we did off the court and how we maximised. going to it may sound crazy, but every single minute of the day in Portugal, that allowed us to shape, I think how the World Cup went.

Paul Camillos (08:57.282)

Wow. That’s, it always seems, I mean, looking at it from the outside, that’s always seems to be one of the biggest challenges you, that you guys have as, as coaching staff is we get so few opportunities to get the national teams out there, at the different age levels as well. and it makes it, must make it like really hard, particularly when you’re getting newer people in to be able to figure out.

how you make those rotations and how you make the match-ups work, regardless of how much footage you’re watching, because they’ve just never had that international level experience.

Renae (09:36.824)

Yeah, and I think if you were to tell me…

before we went away, this is how you’re going to play and this is how you’re going to rotate. I don’t know. There’s no way. But that’s the beauty of that’s the beauty of coaching. have to adapt on the fly and you have to go with what works. And you know what? It could have easily not worked as well. And then I would have learned a lot from that. But thankfully, thankfully we did have a bit of success. So worked and it was a lot of fun to play the way we did. But if you were to tell me in the prep, it’s going to go like this. I don’t know if it would have I would have thought that.

Paul Camillos (09:46.296)

Ha ha ha ha!

Paul Camillos (10:09.706)

And, you know, I mean, did you, did you think that getting into the final was, was a good oppo, a good chance for us given the mix of the team?

Renae (10:21.446)

I guess, you know, we had some injuries and some things along the way, some surprises, but I kind of allowed, never, the biggest concern for me going in, regardless of the team or what it looked like, was when the draw came out and we had France in our pool. So knowing that whoever lost, well, I mean, we had to beat Brazil and Mali as well, whoever, so essentially we were almost better coming third. So it was first or third, you didn’t want to come second, and how to avoid coming second to not play the US in the quarter.

to finals. all of my prep was more or less around how do we beat France and how do we secure that game. And I think that I never really worried about anything outside of

out of that and what do we have to do every single day for that? So it wasn’t really who we had, who we didn’t have, anything like that. It was, all right, this is going to be a big game in our pool, but not even that game. Mali and Brazil were going to be massive as well. But just kind of took it day by day because I feel like if I thought how are we going to go, what results are we going to have? I’d just probably bring on some anxiety to myself. And I think that regardless, I can only control certain amount of things. So this is what we’re doing today.

focus on this, go all in on this and then see how we go then tomorrow. But we never as a staff really thought past the day. And we did that at the camp and we adapted and then we did it in Portugal and then we just kept going. So it was just a day by day thing, which I think the kids as well have reduced a lot of anxiety. We never spoke to them about.

We never spoke about a medal. We never mentioned a medal. We never mentioned a result. We just mentioned, say, three things we wanted to be the best in the world at, and that’s all we spoke about every day. Never about anything else. And that’s kind of how I’ve operated, and I like to operate, because I think it takes a bit of pressure off, and you can just focus on what you need to. Maybe that’s right, maybe that’s wrong. yeah, it was, I think we enjoyed it and kept us grounded.

Paul Camillos (12:18.51)

So I just want to touch on this because like everybody, it almost feels like every international competition Australia is in, regardless of who’s in the pool, it’s always, you know, the group of death. I mean, in that group, and I’m not, I’m not trying to take anything away from, from Brazil or Mali, but really the biggest challenge we had in that group was

Renae (12:33.678)

Yeah.

Paul Camillos (12:48.568)

France rather than the other two teams. When you see that that whole you know group of death things show up what do you think?

Renae (13:00.526)

I just think we better beat France.

Paul Camillos (13:03.176)

Yeah.

Renae (13:06.31)

But then the crazy thing is you can’t discount the other two teams. And we learned that from the previous campaign of that Mali can come out and achieve incredible things. So we definitely didn’t take the other two teams lightly, but you look at every team, it’s like the group of death. mean, every country is good. Every country is sending their best team. So to be honest, I didn’t really think too much into the group of death because you could probably say that about a few other groups as well. But.

Paul Camillos (13:10.029)

Sure.

Paul Camillos (13:23.223)

Yeah.

Paul Camillos (13:31.02)

Yeah.

Renae (13:32.376)

It was incredibly significant because if you looked at the top five ranked teams, two of them were in our pool and one had to cross over with the US. So that was a bit unfortunate and we just had to do everything in our power to avoid that. And France knew it too when I was talking to their coach, they had not had a game that they hadn’t won within 20 for the year and a half leading into the World Cup.

So they were so dominant as well and they would have been super confident and they wanted that gold medal. So we both kind of wanted to achieve the same thing and we’re in the same pool. So we were just lucky, lucky that we’re on the other side of it.

Paul Camillos (14:08.494)

So that US game, that was tough right from the jump. It was fast paced and the scoring was pretty fast moving. I’m guessing you would have been expecting that from the US coming out at the start of that game?

Renae (14:30.628)

Yeah, I mean, they’re so athletic and they’re so skilled. So regardless, our margin for error is so small. So the minute, you know, if we make a…

a sloppy pass, it’s done. If we don’t box out, we’re finished. If we take a slightly poor shot, they’re going to get a layup at the other end where we could probably get away with this to a certain extent, a little bit more versus the European teams. But the US, we just and I felt the similar way with Canada. They were so athletic and long that that was my biggest concern. So we just had to be really, really precise with how we play. And the US was probably an extra step up on. We just had to be that extra level of discipline.

and we had to make shots and it kind of lots of things had to go our way.

Paul Camillos (15:15.146)

And one of the things for me, looking at the squad and looking at the result that you got at the World Cup, we’ve got an astounding amount of talent coming through. If you really sit down and look at the number of players and their age and where they’re at and what potentially they could achieve over the next few years, it’s an amazing amount of talent we’ve got coming through.

You know, again, from a coach’s perspective, how do you see this for Australia and Australian women’s basketball as a whole?

Renae (15:51.43)

I think it, yeah, it’s exciting for sure. I think it was a really unique and kind of memorable group. I’ve been fortunate enough to be a part of a lot of teams, but it was such a unique team that we had in every single position, a player brought something completely opposite to the other person in their position. And I’ve never really kind of seen it to this extent where a lot of the time you’ve got two guards and they’re both kind of similar, but ours was so, so different to each other.

Paul Camillos (16:09.87)

Mm-hmm.

Renae (16:18.374)

which worked in our favour because once we subbed we got a very different look with that player in the same role. And I think for Australian basketball, how exciting is that? We had 12 kids that all bring something completely different that are going to make our country better.

Paul Camillos (16:33.122)

Yeah, when you just mentioning that the different style of play, like with the guards, how did you, like sitting on the side of the floor watching the games when you did do that, how significant was it in terms of how it threw the opposition given that really different style of play?

Renae (16:57.638)

I don’t know really. I’m guessing by saying I guess we had a vision of how we’re going to play and it was going to be hard because we wanted to play really physically, defensively and fast offensively. So when what I learned early in Portugal was because the European, sorry, the FIBA game so physical that

players on our team actually probably couldn’t go for longer than three to four minutes, just physically wise, they just were beaten down. So we wanted to do this to other teams. And so then we could figure out a rotation that had not necessarily

our best five or weaker five. I don’t actually feel like we had that anyway, but just two lots of combinations that would complement each other that we had enough IQ, scoring ability in each of the slots that when we rotated, we never really lost an edge, but we gained energy. And I think that helped us. could see in some of the games where other teams kind of kept going with their starters, where we were able to chop and change a little bit. So we brought that extra layer of physicality to wear teams down. And then also at the offensive end, we could keep running. So

For us, I felt because we had so much depth and so much unique depth that just brought completely different things, it worked in our favour.

Paul Camillos (18:12.948)

it was again, looking at that, at that whole squad, know, there was some, there was some really amazing, talents there. were like, we’ve talked about Bonnie Deas, but there was also Monique Bobongie and, Manny Puoch who, know, WNBL rookies, both of them, but they’ve come through and they’ve, it seems like they’ve translated their experience from the WNBL into that international role, into those international roles really well.

How do you find working with a squad that has such a range of practical experience from WNBL rookies down to people who’ve been playing in the NBL One and trying to get those skills to merge?

Renae (19:02.328)

Yeah, I don’t know. I probably didn’t weigh too much in or think that was in my thinking. I think the biggest difference you can probably see in the kids that have played WNBL is just their maturity around leadership and just what they’ve seen with the Opals they’ve played with to kind of echo that or shadow that or they tell stories of what they’ve seen. I think that’s probably the biggest difference. But

The NBL1 was probably a big one as well because a lot of them were playing a lot of minutes in that. And I think the NBL1, we have a lot to thank for that because like you said, we don’t have many practice games, but the fact that they were all playing NBL1 and getting confidence from that and the level of quality of the games they’re all getting every week, I think that had a lot to do with the form they came in and the confidence they came in as well.

Paul Camillos (19:50.734)

Yeah, I was looking at some of the stats and some of the action like Sitaya Fagan in that US game came up with some amazing blocks and you’re looking at it you’re going, but hang on a minute. And I don’t mean this as anything derogatory, but you look at it go, she’s a kid and look at how she’s stepping up.

Renae (20:14.212)

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that the back to my point about the NBA one, you could go through pretty much the whole roster and they were all doing some really incredible things at that level. the kids that were playing in the South are playing against.

WBL players every week, actual professional players they’ve got to go against. And then you’ve got the East, the North, everyone that’s everywhere else. And I think the level of games and the shots they were able to take and what they were able to do, I think that that enabled them to come in with a lot of confidence. And like while you say, we didn’t get a lot of practice games, but I do think that in itself was really valuable.

Paul Camillos (20:49.208)

So that kind of brings me to something else. I mean, you look around, you look at the US particularly, the typical pathway for them is, you know, high school, college, professional. Whereas here in Australia, now we’ve got the, it used to be you’d play at your association and then you had to go to college to get that next level of experience or come in as a DP in the WNBL.

Now the NBL1 is sort of coming to that intermediate level where players can either take one or two directions, college or professional as a DP in the WNBL. Looking at it from your perspective and looking forward a few years, how much do you think the NBL1 is going to help develop the strength and the depth of players for Australia?

Renae (21:46.374)

massive. I think that we’re so lucky in Australia. You look at a lot of the other countries, especially the US, once you finish college, if you don’t go to the WNBA within that country, that’s it.

where for us, you can still get paid to play and you can, the dream doesn’t die. And I love that. And you see it all the time in the NBL one. There’s so many great examples of players that are 26, 27, and they’re still playing NBL one. And then they finally become a rookie in the WNBL. And that enables that to happen. So I think that there’s so many incredible NBL one clubs that are honestly treating it like a WNBL program where they’re doing individual skill development. They’ve got great team practices and they’re constantly pushing their players to get better. So as a result,

players getting better, pushing it up, the WNBL is getting better. So the the NBL1 even in my time since playing to coaching has just come so far and the quality of players we’re getting, the marketing with it all is incredible. The crowds this year were the best I’ve ever seen. It’s been unbelievable to follow and to be a part of. So I can only imagine while the WNBL and NBL grows, the NBL1 one will continue to grow and to keep pumping it up.

Paul Camillos (22:30.979)

Yeah.

Paul Camillos (22:54.506)

And, you know, obviously your international coaching commitments meant that you spent less time with North’s Bears in the NBL1. But, you know, regardless, the team managed to put in a really spectacular performance. And it really came down to the very end of the season where it was just like…

a particular game that was like the difference between making it through the finals and not. How do you find that you have to balance the international versus domestic coaching commitments? Because it must be difficult. You spend all this time with like North’s Bears and the NBL One East. And then you’ve got to take this break.

for a few weeks to go overseas, it must be challenging for you as a coach to be able to manage that. And do you get people from from North’s Bears, you know, getting on the phone while you’re overseas saying, Hey Renee, listen, can we talk about this?

Renae (24:04.198)

it’s great question and how do I even answer it? Because the bears, I love the bears and I’m so grateful that I’ve got to coach them. if I…

To be able to coach in the NBL1 with the team we had and to keep working with those players, I love every second of it. But also the challenges through that and what I get to experience every week definitely helped my coaching and helped for the gems for sure. And then things I get to try in NBL1, we get to see if that’ll work with the gems. But it was a funny feeling that the bears were kind of rolling. We were playing really well, happy with where we’re at. And then it’s like bang, the last five games of the season, I’m gone. And then the first week I’m

Paul Camillos (24:44.664)

Yeah.

Renae (24:46.478)

back two days before the finals but I don’t think you’d be able to do it if I wasn’t. I was so lucky I’ve just got such an incredible staff at North’s, three incredible coaches that just one they’re so confident, they’re so confident and then they’re just so reliable and the players respect them so when I was gone the team they played really well, they didn’t miss a beat, they kept improving so I just think that yeah I was very lucky with who I was surrounded with. I think I reached out to them more than they reached out to me. think that

They probably wanted to leave me alone, yeah, I reached out and I watched their games when I was away and just really proud of them all. I thought they did a great job.

Paul Camillos (25:25.242)

And that’s something else about the NBL1, your ability to be able to watch the games overseas. You’ve just mentioned that. And I think it’s something that people probably don’t think too much about here in Australia because the truth is we’re kind of spoiled with that level of action. But it’s been made available overseas. So it’s actually helping to identify the NBL1 as a destination.

for those players who are really trying to get some additional experience.

In terms of being able to identify imports who could come up into the WNBL, how do you think the NBL1 has assisted WNBL clubs generally?

Renae (26:13.734)

Well, I think we’ve seen a fair few of our superstars play NBL1 and get noticed. Sami Whitcomb was an NBL1 player before she signed with the Perth Lynx back in the day. And then Tracy Gahan, who went on to be one of Adelaide’s great players. She played in Tassie. So I think there’s a lot of cases of imports that come out here, give it a go, why not? And then it ends up being they’re one of our best players that we’ve had in the league. And I think there’s…

great examples of just players that have finished at college and they’re not really willing to give up that dream and maybe they can’t get that European contract so they come here first to give it a go and we either get really, really lucky and they end up staying for a long time or they move on to another adventure but I think that yeah, it’s only going to get bigger. I think you’re right with the visibility overseas and people can watch it, it’s going to continue to grow.

Paul Camillos (27:04.376)

So I want to jump to something a little bit different. You’ve gone from being a very successful player, WNBL champion, you’ve played for the Opals and now you have made amazing strides in the coaching ranks. What do you think is…

that you take from being a player that helps you be a good coach.

Renae (27:32.55)

I think that…

I think that in any single moment, no matter what’s happening, good or bad, I can slip into their shoes. So I think that if, for an example, if a player is playing so bad and I’m coaching and as frustrating as it is, I’m watching just, the, this poor kid just, just self-destruct, but I can put myself in their shoes and know exactly how that feels and how crippling it is and how, how much you just don’t, it’s not on purpose. You don’t want it to

Paul Camillos (27:53.134)

you

Renae (28:07.24)

happen. So I think the ability to kind of get there with them and help them get out of that, that’s probably what I love about it the most, but that’s what I feel has helped me the most. And then also on the flip side, probably the obvious thing is

I was so lucky to have such a long career and I had so many incredible coaches and I saw so many great things that I now get to use. But I also saw some things that really hurt my teammates and didn’t work that have really stuck with me. So that’s something that I feel, you know, for sure that’s probably a bit more obvious, but then slipping into the shoes of good or bad, I probably really enjoy that and that’s something that’s helped me.

Paul Camillos (28:42.712)

So we’re not naming names here, right? But you mentioned like you see a player who’s self-destructing on court. There’s something that, what do you as a coach do when you’ve got that player either, know, half time in the dressing room or after the game where you’re talking through the performance, what sort of things do you try to…

discuss with someone in that situation to try and bring back the confidence and bring back the self-belief.

Renae (29:16.891)

there’s a few different things. One would be…

All right, we just have to narrow your focus down and I’d say a lot of the times with players the reason why they’re in their head and they’re struggling is because they’re not scoring or they’re missing. Really is it something else? And I think that’s probably the most common one. So I just narrow their focus back and just look at them and just grab them and say, I don’t care if you don’t make another shot for the rest of this half, but we’re going to measure the success if you got to go get six boards. Non-negotiable, you got to do that. If you do that in this game, we’ve had success today. So just shift their focus.

Or even in other ways, just sitting in it with them and letting them know like you’re playing really bad. Yeah.

you are, but you’re not a bad player. You’re just playing bad. So now we’re to snap out of it. Okay. Like you’re all good. This is done. So kind of allowing them to feel what they’re feeling and acknowledged. Yeah, this isn’t good, but you’re not a bad player. You’re just playing bad. And that kind of just gives a sense of relief or yeah, either of the two options or a couple of things like that. But I think definitely addressing it helps. I mean, I found that as well that, you you play, have such a terrible game and you go home and you’re so depressed for 24 hours and you probably

Paul Camillos (30:07.692)

Yeah.

Renae (30:27.336)

not okay till you see everyone again because you’re really worried about it but then if someone comes up to you and is like yeah you didn’t play well but that’s okay yeah I don’t know you just feel like you can relax because you’ve addressed the elephant in the room and it’s it’s not all doom and gloom so I mean I’m not saying I’ve just tried a few things like that and I think that it helps players to kind of get out of their head but yeah.

Paul Camillos (30:39.406)

Yeah.

Paul Camillos (30:49.166)

Yeah, I mean, look, obviously it’s a really individual thing, but it’s always interesting because everybody has a different approach to it. And it’s kind of, it’s interesting to hear how each, like from your point of view, how you try and approach it, because there are other people who’ll sort of be, you know, there are some people who look at it from a completely different perspective. So it’s great to understand, you know, what, what you think works because obviously there’s people who are listening, who are like,

Renae (30:52.165)

Yeah.

Paul Camillos (31:16.482)

you know I’m kind of interested in coaching or I’m interested in how this particular coach coaches and they want to get an idea into how you see things because you know look the truth is put 10 coaches in a room you’ve got 10 completely different ways of dealing with exactly the same situation

Renae (31:33.156)

And don’t get me wrong, I act like I’m really calm, great and positive. But the walk from the court to the change room is me like, I’m going to kill this person. I’m going to kill them. They’re not playing this second half. There’s no way they’re getting on. And then I’ll give myself 10 seconds and I’ll snap out of it and kind of revert to, all right, what do they need from me now? Like realistically, we need this player and what the hell are we going to do to get them there? So, and this could be right. It could be wrong. And you’re right. That’s the most incredible thing about coaching is everyone has such a unique way. And that’s, I just love hearing everyone else’s

Paul Camillos (31:36.494)

you

Paul Camillos (31:40.621)

Ha

Paul Camillos (31:50.7)

Yeah.

Renae (32:03.08)

strategies and what they do.

Paul Camillos (32:05.538)

Yeah. You know, and following on from this, one of the things that I’ve noticed that’s been going on is there’s been a lot more investment across the sport in areas that aren’t just on the floor playing. So there’s been a lot more investment and a lot more discussion, not only in social media, but from different segments of the community about building up coaching.

and also things like mentor programs, workshops, there’s the new CBA for the WNBL players as well. From the point of view of someone who’s been involved in the sport for quite a bit of time, how are you seeing the whole trajectory of women’s basketball going?

Renae (32:59.878)

It’s exciting, it’s very exciting to have seen, we had Chloe Dalton actually come out and talk to the Future Flames this week and she touched on the exact same thing where I think she got paid, God, a couple hundred dollars or whatever it is to now where it’s going and it’s not even the money and I’ve spoken about this a lot. It’s not, I personally don’t think that…

it’s about the money and the equal pay and all that just yet. I just think that it’s the resources. And if you can give us the equal resources, watch what will happen. And that’s what we’re seeing now. And that’s the most incredible part of it for me is…

the training times, the facilities that we’re getting, the support staff that we’re getting, that’s now being matched and now we’re seeing the growth. And then the money will follow that with the players being rewarded. And as you can see, they are, the minimum wage has gone up, things like that. But I think for me, it’s always been about the resources and how can we level the playing field there and then let the women go. And I think we’re seeing it.

Paul Camillos (33:59.566)

And tied in with this is the new ownership for the WNBL the upcoming season. There’s already been some really exciting announcements. There’s a new team coming in for the 26-27 season from Tasmania. There was an announcement about an expression of interest for a 10th team. I know I wasn’t expecting a 9th team to be announced so soon.

I’m curious to get an idea of how you’re seeing all of this happening given how stagnant it’s been with teams for a while now with the WNBL.

Renae (34:40.902)

Yeah, you’re right. And it has been stagnant for a while and it’s been the same teams. But I think it’s really exciting. But I think it kind of goes back to the point we made before that this highlights the importance of NBL1.

because the NBA one’s just going to get bigger and bigger because this is where the players are going to come from. So the stronger that gets, because we’re adding two new teams, right? So that’s however many players we’re going to need to add. And we don’t want to dilute the league. We want it to keep getting better and better and stronger and stronger. And I think the more teams we’ve got, we’re to attract more talent. But also I think the motivation from the NBA one’s going to get even greater because they can actually see a clear pathway and there is more opportunity. So I think it’s nothing but exciting.

Paul Camillos (35:22.776)

Yeah, it’s kind of funny because I’ve actually recently been looking through some old footage that we’ve shot over the years at various games. And I came across some stuff from back in the, I think it’s the 2012-13 season at Sydney. I was kind of looking at it. I’m looking at the team and the people who are on the floor and the old Bryden’s Stadium.

Renae (35:41.286)

Okay.

Paul Camillos (35:54.008)

how much everything has changed since then. And unless you actually like seeing it like that so different, I was like, it’s such an amazing leap forward that the league and women’s basketball has made in Australia. You know, it just seems to me that there’s a lot more support behind the sport, whereas

You know, before there was a lot of focus on the NBL and not as much focus on the WNBL. And not because it was an issue with the action on the floor. think it was just a case of media wasn’t really paying attention. And therefore people, we weren’t getting the eyeballs, but now it almost feels like there’s a buzz around the sport itself.

Renae (36:45.862)

Yeah, and I think credit to all the individual clubs. I think they’ve all done a fantastic job of creating that buzz within it. And you can see the growth. I guess I was lucky enough to play at all these stadiums to remember it as a player where you played and to come back as a coach. And it’s a completely different experience now. it’s even there’s the day to day experience of me arriving to work in the morning and how the day goes compared to me arriving in the afternoon to training and how that went.

Paul Camillos (37:11.502)

Yeah

Renae (37:12.358)

That in itself is crazy and yeah I just feel very, very, it’s a really special thing to be a part of to have seen how far it’s come in. To be honest, quite a short time.

Paul Camillos (37:25.794)

Yeah, yeah, I mean look you look back at it. No, like I was thinking a 2012-13 season. That’s Quite a few years. Let’s just not do the math right now but Yeah, if you think about it overall we’re going into I think it’s the 46th season of the WNBL or 47th Again, I’m just not going to do the math right, but

Renae (37:46.724)

One them wasn’t even good.

Paul Camillos (37:52.62)

And even that is not a long time for a league to exist and it’s changed so much since its inception.

Renae (38:01.786)

Yeah, yeah, the best part is the best is yet to come. Yeah.

Paul Camillos (38:05.516)

Yeah, for sure. You know, and I think one of the other things that I’ve found really interesting is the other stuff that’s starting to get involved around the sport. you know, there’s more panels and more events happening that aren’t just purely sport related. So I know that there’s been events that have been run around.

sports and business and sports and health and that basketball is becoming more involved and more visible in these sorts of events and I know you’ve been in some of those events. First up, how do you find sort of sitting on one of those panels on the chair with the microphone looking at all those faces?

Renae (38:57.754)

Yeah, I went to one recently and there was about 40 CEOs or around about that and thinking, God, what could they possibly want to hear from me that resonate up here? I won’t lie. That’s how I thought. But it’s funny because at the end of the day, whether it’s business or basketball, it’s all people.

Paul Camillos (39:00.526)

you

Renae (39:20.014)

and it’s all people management and it’s all people want the exact same thing, whether they’re a basketball player or they’re wearing a big business. They all want to feel appreciated. They want to feel valued and they all want to be driven to achieve something bigger than themselves. So that’s probably the biggest thing I’ve learned is it’s exactly the same. And these events I’ve gone to has been really cool because

Paul Camillos (39:37.026)

Yeah.

Renae (39:41.05)

you’ll finish talking and chat to someone and there’s so many things that go across both and that I can learn off them, I love and then I can implement with my teams and it helps me. I think the really special thing about being involved in sport is people just love sport and people love being around sport and they love talking about sport. And so a really close friend of mine the other day gave me this example, which…

So she’s really high up in her company and where she works. she said, and she doesn’t know anything about basketball, doesn’t know anything at all, but we’re really good friends. And she said, when I went away to the World Cup, she woke up all the time and watched all the games and everything. And she said, it was just mind blowing to me that I could chat to you, but then your job is so visual and I can watch it. So we’ve spoken about like team culture or what you want to implement and things like that.

but I actually got to watch it. I got to actually see it where I can hear the exact same thing on her side, their team culture, what she’s implementing at work, but I’ll never get to see it. And I’d never heard it really articulated to me like that. Someone that really doesn’t enjoy sport at all, but absolutely love that process because it doesn’t really get seen in other jobs. And anyway, I’ve never heard it explained like that, but I thought, yeah, that’s really cool for players and coaches.

Paul Camillos (40:56.226)

Yeah. And the fact that, you know, you getting more, you’re getting the chance to see more of what happens in the huddle nowadays as well, because, you know, in the old days, like you’d be watching the huddle and it’s the cameras way off. You’ve got no idea what’s going on. You can see sort of someone scribbling on a board and that’s about it. But now people are getting mic’d up. The cameras are there. There’s a microphone. We, people get to hear what’s going on.

Renae (41:04.698)

Yeah, right.

Paul Camillos (41:23.566)

and it gives it gives this whole new perspective on what happens to sport and a whole new level of involvement and You know, know from like from my Day job stuff, right? It’s it’s amazing how much stuff I’ve I’ve picked up over the years from listening to various coaches Both repeatable and not repeatable That you can use at work

Renae (41:52.538)

Yeah, I bet, right? It’s, You can use both. That’s perfect.

Paul Camillos (41:56.846)

Yeah, I mean, some of the not repeatable stuff is you kind of go like, did they really say that?

Renae (42:01.49)

huh.

But then that’s entertainment, we’re giving the people what they want,

Paul Camillos (42:07.05)

Yeah, yeah, some of that stuff you just can’t get away with it a work environment So, you know, we’ve it’s not too long now till we get into a New WNBL season and a very different WNBL season first season under the new ownership First season where there’s a lot more

Renae (42:11.256)

Yeah, true, true, true, true.

Paul Camillos (42:34.688)

initiatives around promoting and developing the sport, what are you expecting? And, you know, obviously you probably have, you may have a bit more of a view into it only because of the commonality of the ownership between the league and the team.

Paul Camillos (42:57.006)

Okay, let’s just strike what I just said.

Renae (43:18.222)

I have no idea what to expect. No, no, no that that’s the beauty of it all, in my opinion, because every WNBL season has its own journey and it has its own story, and you find that every single season you start, no matter where it is or any campaign, you don’t really know who it’s going to go because, I hate to say it, you need a bit of luck

So you need a bit of luck for things to go your way and you can never predict how it’s going to go. And I think that’s the exciting part about it because we sit here, well, like, all right, we’ve got this roster. We think we’ve got our identity. We’re feeling good about it that we have no idea what’s going to happen with our team, other teams. But the one thing I do know is that the league is going to grow. It’s going to be more visible. There’s going to be more crowds and it’s going to be a super exciting product. That’s what I do know, which is, which is great.

Paul Camillos (43:46.036)

it’s something that I know we’re really looking forward to seeing how this season unfolds. And also from the point of view of the flames, you’ve got your new recruits, Mikhaela and Agnes. And coming back, we’ve got Keely, Spads, Loz Nicholson’s back as well. And you’ve got Unique Thompson who played in the NBL1 as well, coming in and making her debut and…

Grace Berger as well. There’s been a lot of changes with the team. It must be exciting as being part of the coaching staff of a team where there are these changes, but you can also see there’s a core of players that have been around the team for quite a bit of time, like taking into account, know, Loz and Spads, who’ve been around the team even back to the days of the last championship. So how are you…

How do you approach putting together a team, building a team spirit like that, with that sort of group?

Renae (44:54.746)

Yeah, think Guy’s been pretty intentional with his recruiting with this team. And I think that type of, like for better word, cultural identity of the group, I think you’re going to really see on the floor. And I think he’s done a really good job of getting the right players to kind of epitomise that.

I mean, it’s exciting having Agnes in the WNBL for the first time after everything she’s achieved. Really excited for her. to have, know, Mikhaela’s a really smart veteran to have her in Sydney. And then you get the players back that have already played for the Flames. That’s awesome. And I think above all else, the biggest thing that, you know, I’m proud to be at Sydney and they’ve got to focus on is having New South Wales kids playing for the Flames. And I think that’s such an important thing. And I love that about, you know, that we get our development players and

training players exclusively from the Future Flames who are New South Wales juniors and I think that’s really important and I think the fact that we’ve got Lauren Nicholson at the top of that that is a Sutherland junior is really special.

Paul Camillos (45:55.486)

And you know, it’s like, we’ve got to see Loz come back in the game between Sutherland and the Comets, where she just sort of went out and dropped a lazy,

Yeah. It’s just like, okay. So she’s been off for, you know, a season and a bit and comes back and drops that. like, what is she going to be capable of delivering during this WNBL season?

Renae (46:32.122)

Yeah, I said this to the other day and I said, please don’t take offense, but I’m really just not all that surprised. I didn’t, everyone’s kind of thinks it’s incredible. I said, don’t take this the wrong way at all. But I just never had any doubt. You’d go, yeah, I just, I just thought she’d slot back in cause she worked so hard and she worked hard throughout her whole pregnancy. for me, it’s just, all right, we’re just picking up where we left off, but also you’re going to keep getting better cause that’s who you are and how hard you work and what you want and what you expect of yourself. I can’t, I’m so happy she’s back.

Renae (47:02.086)

because she’s a great player, but she’s one of the greatest people within our sport, but also a Sydney kid. So she ticks so many boxes for the juniors to look up to and how lucky are our DPs that they get to work with her every day.

Paul Camillos (47:09.133)

Yep.

Paul Camillos (47:15.534)

And I think that’s something that a lot of people don’t think about enough, which is the mix of the veterans and the young kids coming through, your DPs, and for them to be able to mix with the sort of roster that Sydney has or that any WNBL club has, how important is that to their development?

and also helping them feel like, you know, I’m part of something really special here.

Renae (47:46.222)

I mean, think it’s massive. I think that it’s even bigger than that. I think if we get these development players that come in.

and these older players embrace them and help them and they’re going to continue to grow and develop. They then become that. So then they automatically pay it forward. And it’s just this incredible cycle that keeps happening. So I think the leaders in our sports, how they treat these younger players is everything because if that’s how they would treat and you hear them talk about it all the time, you hear younger players, they’ll remember one or two people and they’ll never forget it. And even myself, it’s like this person was so good to me and I’m never going to forget it. And then you find yourself doing the same because this person helped you. So I’m going to help them.

So I think it’s massive and the pay it forward effect is huge and that’s what will continue to make great basketballers.

Paul Camillos (48:31.0)

So who’s the player that stood out the most for you from your early days playing?

Renae (48:36.422)

I had so many, one of the top of my, I feel like it’s more situational that something will happen and I’ll think, but like when I was really, really young in Townsville, like Claudia Brassard and Rohanee Cox, they were really good to me and how they helped me. And then in Adelaide, we had so many veteran players like Jenny Whittle really stood out to me, how she went about it. She had a massive effect. I’m just, just watching someone that.

Paul Camillos (48:58.339)

Yep.

Renae (49:02.34)

just was so selfless but wanted to win. I think that always had a really big impact and I could probably go through every single team to be honest, but there’s always one or two that you think, yeah, you were really, really good to me and that really helped our team. And I think that has a lasting impact.

Paul Camillos (49:20.084)

It’s, it’s, there’s a couple of interesting names there, but I mean the one that for people listening who remember Rohanee Cox playing, right? Most people will remember her as a super tough, not take a step back player. I mean, there’s, there’s no question of that. And probably a lot of people don’t realize that quite often

Renae (49:39.088)

Yeah.

Paul Camillos (49:48.682)

she was the the mum of the team.

Renae (49:52.74)

Yeah, I think the thing that probably stood out to her to me the most was

She worked, when she was on the court, she was a winner and worked really hard for sure. But I was a bit of a stressor and she would always just put, are you worried about? And she just had this sense of calm. What’s your problem? What are you, you played bad. Who cares? What’s wrong with you? and cause I was only, I think I was 18 at the time. That was my rookie year playing in Townsville with her, but just her ability to just pull me aside and just say, nothing’s wrong. It’s fine. Like you’re all good. and she was so much older than me. So that just, that really gave me a sense of calm and really.

Paul Camillos (50:06.766)

hahahaha

Renae (50:28.614)

helped me and it’s something so little but it always stuck with me.

Paul Camillos (50:32.152)

Yeah, again, because I was going through some old footage. I stumbled across an interview that we did with Katie Ebzery, which we one of the questions we asked her was, know, who do you room with? She said, you know, sometimes I’m rooming with with Rowe and it’s really great because because she’s a bit of a mum. So there’s all these things I don’t have to worry about.

Renae (50:57.51)

Yeah, she definitely was that as well, for sure, for sure. Yeah, she definitely, yeah, well, yes, she had, well, she had one or two kids at that time when I played with her. So yeah, she definitely had that feel.

Paul Camillos (51:09.538)

Yeah. Look, I’ve got to say it’s been really amazing having an opportunity to talk to you, especially on the back end of the Under-19s World Cup and a silver medal performance. It’s something that…

We as a country have not had, it was almost like a bit of a drought in the news that we were hearing about for the teams and how they were handling and progressing through these international tournaments. know, silver here, recently we’ve had the gold as well at the Women’s Asia Cup.

It’s not only the local competition. It’s, it feels like there’s momentum building around the international game and for Australia. from your perspective, you get, you get a chance to see this. How do you see that we, we now progressing against those international teams that sometimes probably years ago, people would say, yeah, we’re really not going to do that well against them. Whereas now it’s people as sort of more like, yeah, yeah, we there with a chance.

Renae (52:31.78)

I think it comes in waves with everything. I think you look at some of these countries that, yeah, they’re really on the top and then they have a dip and you’ve got certain levels or whatever. I mean, I think the expectations of Australians is that we always meddle and always do well because that’s the standard and that’s what we set and that’s the expectation. I also, guess being on the other side a little bit too, it’s also really hard because we’re trying to do this, but so is France.

Paul Camillos (52:55.022)

You

Renae (52:58.15)

So is Spain, so is Canada, so is Hungary. So every country, you know, they think they’re really good and they’re pushing and striving to be the best they can be. And I think that’s what makes this so special. So we all go away and, you know, we all live in these countries where we’re trying to, we’ve all got the exact same goal.

But our day-to-day lives are so incredibly different. Our cultures are different, but we’re all trying to achieve the same thing. sometimes we do, sometimes we don’t. But you saw our results. We were probably one point away from it not being like this. And then that’s the crazy part of Torment and Play that sometimes it goes your way and sometimes it doesn’t. But I think the pursuit of the excellence and the medals is, that’s the fun. The day-to-day of how you’re going to get there, that’s where the real joy is.

Paul Camillos (53:42.338)

Renee, look, thanks so much for joining us. Can’t wait to see the flames hit the floor in the upcoming WNBL season. And thanks for joining us again on the podcast. It’s always great talking to you.

Renae (53:56.43)

thanks so much for having me Paul. You guys are doing a great job with the pod. So it’s a pleasure to be on it.

Paul Camillos (54:02.626)

Thanks so much.